Joe Fletcher: a top assistant referee from Canada

Joe Fletcher was only 14 years old when he started as a referee. An easy way to get some money. After climbing the ranks receiving money was not that important when it costs you eight hours of travel. “Then achievement becomes more important, the level of football is then more relevant.”

I’m very glad he took the time for this long interview with Dutch Referee Blog. Much appreciated and a lot of tips and lessons to learn in his story. And a lot of US referees will benefit from it, as Fletcher is Manager of Senior Assistant Referees at Professional Referee Organization

For referees it’s a great experience to be active at top level, like Joe Fletcher was at the 2014 and 2018 World Cup. And many other tournaments. He has stopped at his top. “2018 was my best season”, Fletcher says. “I then asked myself: do I want to end with a World Cup or in a normal year?” He says he also doesn’t want to see himself go down, although he “can still pass a fitness test tomorrow”. 

No guarantees

The fact he is so many days from home as international and MLS referee also plays a huge role. Especially with a wife and two kids at home. “Is continuing worth another six months from home? And there’s no guarantee I would even be selected for the World Cup in 2022.” There might not be a place for him. “Or you can do only one game because something happens. People will remember what happens last and now they’ll see a World Cup experience, not an assistant referee that can barely run”.

Never assume you’ll get a next big game

A big lesson for every referee is: don’t expect to get things easily. “You should never assume you’ll be at the big next tournament automatically”, he says. MLS referee Jair Marrufo was a candidate for the 2010 world cup cycle, not a candidate for the 2014 world cup cycle, and went from being a potential VAR to officiating a match at the 2018 World Cup. “Or think about a European referee like Martin Hansson. After the handball incident in France vs Ireland he didn’t get a big game any more.” 

Tip: view the documentary Rättskiparen about Martin Hansson (English subtitles)

Work hard

“I am very passionate about the work rate of the assistant referee. You need to work hard and always be there.” He knows the chance a goalkeeper slips is small with a backpass, but there is a chance. “You need the habit of sprinting as eventually it is going to happen. Then you are the one who is expected to make the call. Don’t jog. Nobody will ever find a video I don’t work hard.” 

Choose your role, but get to know both

For a long period Joe Fletcher acts as both referee and assistant. “It conflicted and I was Elite at neither, because I did both.” From the moment he made the decision to specialize in AR, it turns out very well. But he doesn’t have regrets to have done both before becoming a FIFA referee. “I need to know the ref’s job inside, outside and backwards. Otherwise: how do I need to help him? You need to gain experience. Teamwork is a big part of what I do.”

“I refereed on a level below MLS. By the time I switched, I had a good understanding of what pressure was like. I know when it’s the time to be quiet, when to be assisting.”

The year 2018

2018 was special for Joe Fletcher. Not only did he act at the World Cup, but he was also able to coach others with the video referee. “I could give input as experienced AR and I was wanting to help. I was was a compliment to be asked, as respect from fellow referees is the best you can get.”

“A tournament like the World Cup is a real animal. Normally there are three camera’s. There are still spots things go unnoticed. With the World Cup everything finds ou. Even if broadcasters don’t see you, there are fans in the stadium who record things. It multiplies the exposure with 100%. 

Officiating in Estadio Azteca

Officiating in Estadio Azteca was one of the best stadiums Fletcher officiated in. It gives a huge atmosphere with a crowd of 100.000 people. Two days before the game the refereeing team arrives, also to get used to the high altitude. “You can still sprint there, but need a longer recovery.”

My top speed is really quick. Last official test in Duby my fastest 30m sprint was 3.87 seconds and the average 3.91s.” (age 41). They have to complete it in 5.1 seconds to pass the test.

Mentors in your career

The most-experienced FIFA assistant referee is Hector Vergara, also from Canada. “But before FIFA I never interacted with him actually”, Joe Fletcher says. “We were both at the u20 World Cup in Canada”. Fletcher says his mentor at lower levels in Canada was Michael Lambert,  a former national referee. “For every hurdle you take as referee there is someone you run into. Don’t forget the mentors at the very beginning of your career.”

Every game is a big game

“You constantly need to be ready for a big game. And treat every game as a big game. You can’t give sixty to seventy percent in the matches without assessor and a hundred percent when there is someone observing. That is not possible, because you’re not used to it.”

“Doing matches is not similar as training, as it’s physically and mentally different. During a game you have to literally give everything. You can’t conserve energy. It’s also muscle memory, you can’t go from gear two to ten. 

Match preparation

Before every game with a new referee Joe Fletcher tries to have lunch or a call with the referee before they meet in the locker room. “Especially when we use radio”. It’s his way to get to know the person he’ll be working with. This contact before the game gives Fletcher the opportunity for better teamwork during the game. It gives him a better impression who he’s going to work with. “Some referees want silence, some want to know everything. As AR you have to morph, change based on the wishes of the referee. Once in the dressing room there is not as much time to talk about how you want to communicate as a team.”

During transit to the stadium he listens to music. That’s when he gets into focus. “I’ll accommodate in the dressing room. But I loved working with Mark. He wants info. I am a personality myself, so not always calm.” They worked together along with other assistant referee Sean Hurd and the u20 World Cup in Columbia was their first big tournament together. 

Kind enough to be a Canadian

He speaks highly of working with Mark Geiger, a US referee that “is a kind enough person to be a Canadian”. He laughs. But then serious. “If we both see something, in 95% of the cases we think the same.” They share clips in group chats to see how they think of match situations. “We create a common understanding and our teamwork will benefit from it. Our friendship works and my view is never ignored. We communicate clearly and in the end Mark has the final say. In the dressing room we can openly say we had a different view.”

For the 2018 World Cup Mark Geiger and Joe Fletcher worked with Frank Anderson. That gave it a different dimension, as he only joined them late in 2017. “We already had a 4 year headstart in our friendship and working with Sean was perfect for Mark. He should not have two big personalities as ARs. It’s then always different when someone joins your team. But I am happy Frank is also a fantastic guy and I hope he’ll be at the next World Cup as well.”

For the 2018 World Cup two US referees were chosen, but it doesn’t automatically mean all ARs go as well. There is no guarantee. You always need to work hard.”

Joe Fletcher during on field session for Ontario Soccer

Helping other referees

“Now I’ve quit, I want to help other referees as well. Hopefully I’ll get to attend the Futuro courses by FIFA. Someone helped me on the way, i want to do somethin as well. I’ll stick with my speciality as AR and hopefully there will be a place for me to help.

Update: On January 13 2020 Joe has been appointed as Manager of Senior Assistant Referees at Professional Referee Organization. He says: “Now it’s my job to take an already elite group of Assistant Referees and push them all to be even better.”

3 tips for referees

  1. From a personal standpoint it is the greatest compliment to get if a referee says: I want you on my team. And you need to know your role then, as I did from the frist match as FIAF refree. You have to accept you are the bass player, most people won’t know you. 
  2. If you want to be a good AR, you need the technical understanding of Law 12 about Fouls and Misconduct. And probably, not far away, your watch says it’s offside. You then still need to know how and when to help. You need understanding of refereeing. 
  3. Never leave anything to chance. You should never think: I should have put in more. You may not always be right, but you need to feel good about yourself.

Michelle O’Neill: top AR from Ireland

Michelle O’Neill will be involved in the 2019 Women’s World Cup final. She’s the assistant referee of Stéphanie Frappart. They first worked together at O’Neil’s first main Uefa tournament, the u19 Euro’s. “Where I was very succesfull and got all the way the final.”

Seven years later they will add another pinnacle to their cooperation with the World Cup final in France.  A story about Michelle O’Neil, a top level assistant referee from Ireland.

Michelle O'Neill

In a video from FAI Ireland (embedded below) she tells a lot about her career as referee. A few lessons for you.

Be passionate

The woman from Ireland is very passionate about her job as referee. She smiles when talking about it, excitement everywhere when being asked about going to France for the World Cup. 

It’s just over ten years ago that she started as a referee in 2008. After her succesfull u19 Uefa Euro’s in 2012, she has been to Papua New Guinea for the under 20’s World Cup, 2015 Women’s World Cup in France, Uefa Euro 2017 in The Netherlands, the u20 France World Cup last year. In the latter she again worked with Stéphanie Frappart from France and  “got all the way to the final again”.

She calls her career “unbelievable”. 

Always try to get better

As a player Michelle O’Neill was succesfull, but she was not always with the referee decisions. “I always was frustrated about, you know, the decisions in the matches”, she says to FAI. She always thought: “Hey guys, you can do better here.” That’s why she went into refereeing herself after finishing her career. 

And getting better and better is something you’ll see throughout her career. She wants to be the best. “Four years ago there was 300 of us on the list for this tournament and that’s when the campaign started”, she says. “Now there is 47 of us going to the World Cup out of that huge amount.”

That means for her that she wants to give all to be “very fast, very strong, very fit”. 

She made the final cut and is proud to be representing Ireland. “And in terms of my results I would be in the top 5% of the World Cup this year. So I am very very happy with that stats.”

Work hard for good games at national level too

Michelle O’Neill wants to officiate as many good games as possible. Not just in Europe, but also at national level.  She is an assistant referee in the highest men’s league since 2013.  What helped her getting ready for the 2019 Women’s World Cup is “getting the opportunities to have so much high quality matches here in Ireland”, she says. “That is a huge boost for me.”

In 2017 Esther Staubli officiated a game at FIFA’s u17 tournament in India, but did you know Michelle O’Neill was involved in the u19 men’s Youth League in 2014-2015? She assisted referee Robert Rogers in the game between Arsenal and Borussia Dortmund

Gain experience as much as you can

“I’ts so exciting to come back to a World Cup”, Michelle O’Neill says. Because she has been at a World Cup before, she felt much better before the tournament.  Call it “more mature if you want to say that”. And the experience she gained helps her a lot. Less stress. “I am a lot more relaxed, as I know the work I’ve done over the last four years.

For her it’s a huge honour to be present in France. To FAI she tells that it’s amazing to be “standing in the middle of it all officiating it in front of 64.000 live spectators and then millions across the world. I mean it’s a huge, huge stage of Women’s football.”

Michelle O’Neill video

The smoothest handshake for referees

The smoothest handshake for referees in the player tunnel is by Joe Fletcher. The Canadian assistant referee is – at least amongst referees – known for this.

PS: next week a full interview with this Canadian top AR.

Joe Fletcher and goalkeeper Iker Casillas.

It all happens during the 2014 World Cup in Brazil. The 18th of June in Estádio Maracanã. The referees are ready and all players line up in the tunnel for the group stage game between Spain and Chili. Someone shakes hands with Spanish goalkeeper Iker Casillas. Assistant referee Joe Fletcher is next … 

And then this happens.

Video of the handshake

People remember him about this situation a lot, Fletcher says. “Even when there was a new clip about goalkeepers from FIFA, they highlighted Casillas.” And of all the footage they got from this experienced Spanish goalkeeper, they pick the footage from the World Cup. “And again, that handshake shows up. Yeah it’s funny now”. 

Fletcher was happy the game went really smooth, so he could have a laugh about this afterwards. “And when we were leaving the stadium we talked about it. Sean Hurd says: It had to be you and I am happy it was you and not me”. 

Check out the story about Mark Geiger.

Female referees in The Netherlands: “Come on girls, take up that whistle!”

The need for more female referees in The Netherlands. An interview with Kevin Blom, who heads the female refereeing development programme.

Our Orange Lionesses are due to leave for France to compete in the Women’s World Cup. Obviously, everybody’s hoping the Dutch will wage another successful campaign on the back of winning UEFA WEURO 2017, which gave Dutch women’s football a huge boost. The momentum gained by Dutch women’s football is reflected in the number of female referees, underscores Kevin Blom, who heads the female refereeing development programme.

Interview by Jan from Dutch Referee Blog for the national Dutch RA’s magazine. The story is translated by Ben from Thank you very much, Ben! (and follow his blog as well please)

Kevin Blom about female refereeing in the The Netherlands

Positive effect of WEURO 2017

“The Dutch win and presence during WEURO 2017 had the added effect of stimulating more women to take up the whistle or assistant’s flag. Their number is still too small, however. It boggles the mind that we have so many women playing football but only about 40 female registered referees.”

“We did not expect to have a referee at this year’s World Cup yet, as none of our top refs are at Elite level yet. UEFA referees start in Category 3, so Shona and Lizzy will have to be promoted three times to make it to Elite level.” Blom sees a rosy future ahead, though. “Our female referees are showing great progress. We hope to have a representative team at the 2023 World Cup. We’re working hard to achieve that goal.”

Solid international performances

At the moment, Holland can boast three international referees and five international assistant referees (see boxout). Nicolet Bakker was selected to act as an assistant referee at the WEURO 2017 in Holland. “Our referees and assistants are performing well, both domestically and internationally”, Blom emphasises. “We hope that Shona Shukrula and Lizzy van der Helm will be promoted to a higher category before long. UEFA has included Shona in its special referee talents programme, which means she’s doing well.”

Dutch women's cup final 2019 toss

Shona Shukrala at toss of Dutch women’s cup final 2019

Women in the pro game

Although the Eredivision cannot boast the presence of a female referee, some women are knocking on the door. Shona Shukrula has been invited to do an intake for the Talent Course Pro Football (TTBV in Dutch) and has already been assigned matches in the fourth tier of Dutch football. Already in the TTBV programme, Franca Overtoom has assisted in as many as eight matches on the second tier of Dutch pro football.

Kevin Blom welcomes this development and hopes that some of his pupils will make that final step into the pro game in due time. Happy as he is to see the development programme is bearing fruit, Blom does realise there’s only a small base to work from. “There are approximately 40 female registered referees active in Holland. Increasing that number is one of our key challenges”, he stresses.

More female referees in The Netherlands

This weekend, Blom was at Buitenboys, an amateur club, to award a Fair Play certificate. He found five girls reffing matches there, so female refs are out there alright. “It’s now a matter of getting those girls to go one step further and register as official referees.” Blom made it clear that any girl showing fitness and a solid performance could quickly climb the Dutch reffing ladder, up to international grade. “There’s a wealth of opportunities”. It will have to be spelled out, of course, that not every one will rise to highest level, but Blom would be very content if girls become more conspicuously present in refereeing roles.

Blom has scheduled meetings with female referees who have taken refereeing courses. Among the things he wants to learn are their motives for taking up the whistle. “I’d like to learn why they’ve gone into reffing and what we can do to encourage others”, Blom says. “One thing I hear quite often is that women tend to be overlooked for volunteer work at clubs. That’s one thing we can work on. We will also ask other national associations for their solutions to getting women involved.”

Role models

“What’s also likely to help is for young girls to have good role models.” That’s why he is glad that the women who are within reach of the pro game have taken up giving courses and presentations at football clubs. Initiatives like #ZijFluitTop (the Dutch equivalent of #GirlsThatRef), with several sports associations drawing attention to female referees, can meet with Blom’s approval as well. “Unfortunately, these initiatives have not yet resulted in female hopefuls attending our courses in droves”, Blom hastens to add.

“This narrow basis really pinches the number of women rising to the top. If female refereeing wants to evolve, it is essential for the number of female referees to grow. “That number really has to increase. We have eight women at the top of Dutch football now. There should be fifty. So come on, girls, take up that whistle! And experience first-hand how challenging, enriching and satisfying it is to be in charge of a football match.”

Note: I’ve written this story for the COVS, the Dutch referee association. It’s translated by Ben from Much appreciated!

Boxout: Dutch international referees


  • Vivian Peeters (since 2005)
  • Shona Shukrula (since 2017)
  • Lizzy van der Helm (since 2018)

Assistant referees

  • Nicolet Bakker (since 2008)
  • Fijke Hoogendijk (since 2013)
  • France Overtoom (since 2017)
  • Bianca Scheffers (since 2014)
  • Diana Snoeren (since 2019)

Boxout: Female referees across our borders

In France, Stéphanie Frappart (below) recently débuted as a referee in Ligue 1 and has now officiated in two matches in France’s top flight. In Germany, Bibiana Steinhaus has just finished her second season in the Bundesliga. And across the North Sea, Sian Massey-Ellis made her debut as an assistant referee in the Premier League on 28 December 2010, running the line when Blackpool hosted Sunderland.

Stéphanie Frappart during her debut

Anastasia Pustovoitova to referee WUCL final 2018-2019

Anastasia Pustovoitova is the referee of the Women’s UCL final 2018-2019. “There’s a mixture of emotions – certainly happiness and excitement”, she tells “I can’t wait to get to the match, and I’m sure that my heart rate will increase when I’m lining up with the teams.”

During the Women’s World Cup 2019 Anastasia Pustovoitova is also active. She was 4th official in the British clash between England and Scotland. Her first game as referee is Nigeria vs Korea. She is also appointed for the clash between Sweden and USA.

In this blog post she shares 3 tips that you can apply as referee.

Anastasia Pustovoitova (second to right) at Algarve Cup

1. Gain experience both as player and referee

Because Anastasia Pustovoitova is a former football player, she has a lot of experience in (top) football. In the early years of this century she plays football in the Women’s Cup, which is the predecessor of the Women’s Champions League. “We were the first Russian club to play in the competition when it started in 2001/02, and we reached the quarter-finals, when we were knocked out by the strong Swedish team Umeå IK, who reached the final that year and won the competition the year after.”

This experience gave here the great feeling of acting at top level, but also ignites here spark to continue in top football. “I thought about what I could do next, because I can’t live without football – and I decided to try refereeing”.

But how has it really helped her? “You are able to read the game and you can anticipate a lot of the time what comes next.”

2. Work as a real team

“When I refereed, I felt confident, so I continued”, Anastasia Pustovoitova says. That brought her to the 2017 Women’s Euro and the 2019 World Cup in France. The Russian referee says that it is very important to have a great team. “Without the team, I’m nothing”, she says.

That’s a similar experience Björn Kuipers experiences when making big calls. “It’s also about the fact that someone in your team gives you an advice and that you follow your team member when you make a decisions.” Check how Björn Kuipers builds trust with his team.

Anastasia Pustovoitova during the Women’s Euro 2017

3. Be yourself as referee

Every referee has some match official that he likes, but you should not copy him or her. “You must be yourself as a referee”, is the advice of Anastasia Pustovoitova. “I don’t really have role models, but I respect [German referee] Bibiana Steinhaus, she’s a women’s refereeing icon”, she tells Uefa. She also mentions former Czech referee and UEFA refereeing officer Dagmar Damková who I spoke with for my blog. “She is so experienced and took charge of so many important games in her career.”

Anastasia Pustovoitova’ is looking forward to the future. “I just want to keep doing my best and looking ahead”. And what would she advice a young girl who might be keen to take up refereeing?

“Just do it, if you love football – and believe in yourself…”

Training by Anastasia Pustovoitova

On YouTube you can see what a training session by Anastasia Pustovoitova looks like.

Club referee in The Netherlands: Clarence Leow from Singapore

Being a club referee in The Netherlands, that’s a unique chance to referee games as foreign referee. Clarence Leow can’t referee games for KNVB, because his stay in The Netherlands is too short. He thinks he’ll only train at the referee association … But luckily for him there’s a club referee system and he officiates over twenty games. A great foreign experience as referee. “I’ll take this with me to Singapore and will continue my career there.”

Club referee in the netherlands: clarence Leow

Clarence Leow is a 23-year-old student in Biomedical Sciences, who studied one semester in Leiden for an exchange programme. His FA wrote a letter for me to send to the KNVB, but in the opinion of the Dutch association a stay of just four months is too short to become KNVB official. “And I agree with them now”, says Leow. “They don’t know how good I am. If they first need to assess me, my time in The Netherlands is up.”

Local referee association

KNVB advises Leow to get in touch with a local branch of the COVS, the referee association. Leow’s idea is then that he will only train, but things change. In The Netherlands there are options to become a club referee. “Manon, a fellow ref asks me if I want to referee. She plays (and referees) at Voorschoten’97 and they need referees every week.”

Clarence Leow showing a yellow card.

Clarence Leow showing a yellow card. Photo provided by referee.

And that’s not where it stops, as one of the Saturday teams from Voorschoten ‘97 were in need of players as well. “I referee two to three games a day and even play in the weekend’s.” He describes his craziest day where he officiates at another club (RKAVV in Leidschendam) at 9 am, travels in 45 minutes with public transport to Voorschoten’97 to officiate a game there at 12.30pm and plays for his team at 4.15 pm. “I woke up at 6 in the morning and was home late in the evening.”

What he loves as club referee in The Netherlands

“What I love the most about refereeing in The Netherlands is that players understand that referees are human”, he says. He loves a simple “thank you, ref”, which he usually gets here. In Singapore referees line-up teams before and after the game for a handshake, but that is organised. In The Netherlands it comes more natural. “They even do it when they lose with 10-0.”

Clarence Leow and flowers

“Extra special was the week of the referee where I received a bouquet for flowers after my game on a Sunday. It’s a good example my country could start with as well”, he says. “And you don’t go to a game to receive praises, but every once in a while it feels good to be appreciated.”

A big difference for him was the use of club assistant referees and the sin bin. “ The sin bin is a good way for players to cool down. But it took some time for me to get used to the use of club assistant referees during my games.

Clarence Leow

Clarence Leow. Photo provided by referee.

COVS training

Leow enjoys his time at COVS with training sessions from Piet, Ernst-Jan, Remco and Koos. And a video test on Thursdays. “Everyone was very welcoming to me.”

But his start in Leiden was not good, he admits. “In Singapore buses arrive every ten minutes, but in The Netherlands the schedule changes after 7PM. Then it goes every thirty or even sixty minutes. I missed my bus to COVS, so I decide to run for three kilometres with my bag. I was 10 minutes late at the first training session. I was a bit worried, as punctuality is very important for referees. But thankfully, Ronald from COVS was very understanding.”

Clarence Leow


Funny moments: whistle

In his first month in The Netherlands, Leow barely speaks Dutch. This leads to a funny situation. There’s a direct free kick near the penalty are. Leow tells the players in English to wait for the whistle. Everyone is looking to the halfway line, but don’t know why they have to wait. That’s because the players think the referee wants a wissel, the Dutch word for substitute, which sounds similar. In the end they understand each other and play continues.

When Leow got back in Singapore he re-registers and does the FIFA fitness test. “I am really lucky to be given the chance by Voorschoten’97 and COVS for this experience in The Netherlands. My biggest learning in The Netherlands is positional awareness. I gained more experience in getting used to the pace of the game. You never know if games are fast or slow. But no referee wants a boring game. Luckily I have done some great ones here and I’ll never forget this experience.”

Referees from Singapore

Referees from Singapore. Photo provided by referee.

3 tips from World Cup and Olympic referee Anna-Marie Keighley

Anna-Marie Keighley is having a great career. She has been to the 2015 World Cup and the Olympics in Rio. In 2019 she will be at the Women’s World Cup in France. She is appointed for Jamaica vs Italy and Thailand vs China.

In this story you’ll find three useful tips from the top referee from New Zealand. She is ambitious. Her goal as referee is always to go one better. After her selection for the World Cup she sets a new goal. “Then being involved in the final would be a dream come true.”

Anna-Marie Keighley

Start of her career

Keighley started her career when she was coaching and had to referee a half. “I didn’t really know the rules”, she admits. After following a course she climbed the refereeing ladder and has reached the international level in 2010. “I enjoy the ability to be still involved in the game particularly on a high level”, she tells NZ Football.

Her career brought her to the u17 Women’s World Cup in Costa Rica, the Youth Olympic Games and the Women’s World Cup in Canada in 2015. She officiated also a round of 16 game between the organizing country and The Netherlands. “An amazing experiences to be in the middle of. And then I was charged with a semi-final. Another huge pinnacle of my career and very lucky to receive such an appointment.”

Refereeing men’s games

Keighley was also one of the female referees appointend for the men’s u17 World Cup. A tournament with the historical moment of Esther Staubli officiating a men’s game. “It is such a great honour to be included in this tournament and share with the other amazing female referees in this historic moment”, she tells NZ Football. “It is great to see the speed at which women’s refereeing is developing and a privilege to be part of that journey and history.”

But what can YOU learn from her? Anna-Marie Keighley gives 3 tips for fellow refs.

Be consistent and decisive

“Go out and be the leader. But you don’t go out control the game, but facilitate the game and provide an opportunity where you’re protecting the players and allowing the game to flow.

Find inspiration

Anna-Marie Keighley has looked closely at fellow top referees in New Zealand. Peter O’Leary and Mike Hester went to the World Cup in South Africa. “Both Mike and Peter have been inspirational to me to continue on the referee pathway and to see their accomplishments I often asked myself ‘why not me?’’’, she says to Boxscore.

I interviewed Mike Hester after his World Cup. Check the interview with this New Zealand top referee.

Practice and develop your crafts

For young lads and girls who still have doubts about becoming a referee, Keighley has one tip. “Give it a shot”. She adds: “You might not be the greatest the first time you do it, you might not be the best. You have to practice and develop your crafts. And likewise with refereeing: the more you do it, the better you gonna get in terms of being assertive, consistent and decisive.

Video of interview with Anna-Marie Keighley

Watch full interview with NZ Football below.